How do you deal with feelings of “not being good enough” when comparing yourself to other artists? - An interview with Jellyfish Can’t Swim in the Night’s original character designer popman3580 and in-anime illustration drafter Hamunezuko
Interviewer: Ichibo Harada
Jellyfish Can’t Swim in the Night (also known as Yorukura for short in Japan), an original anime television series produced by Doga Kobo, officially began airing on Saturday, April 6th, 2024! The series features an all-female ensemble cast made up of an illustrator on hiatus, a former idol who longs to prove herself with her singing, a self-proclaimed “strongest” VTuber, and a mysterious composer who dreams of supporting her oshi. When the four misfits come together to form the anonymous artist group “JELEE,” their lives begin to change as they rekindle their passions and learn to make a name for themselves.
Original character designs and in-anime illustration drafts are done by popman3580 and Hamunezuko, respectively. In this joint interview, we asked them how they deal with feelings of not being “good enough” when comparing themselves to other creators, an issue the character Mahiru also faces in the series. Additionally, both illustrators discuss the ways they relate to Jellyfish Can’t Swim in the Night’s themes about creativity and the modern-day challenges of being an artist, as well as the behind-the-scenes of the series.
Index
- Yorukura is the first anime series we’ve had a major hand in
- One of the highlights of the show is the characters’ outfits
- It took half a year to complete the jellyfish wall mural
- As illustrators, we found many of their troubles relatable
- When feeling down, it helps to remind yourself of your roots
- Television broadcasting dates and streaming times
- popman3580
- popman3580 is an illustrator and the original character designer of Jellyfish Can’t Swim in the Night. In addition to character design, he also draws illustrations for books and other media. popman3580 started out drawing illustrations on the side while working at a company before becoming a full-time illustrator last year.
- Hamunezuko
- Hamunezuko is an illustrator and the in-anime illustration drafter of Mahiru’s drawings in Jellyfish Can’t Swim in the Night. In addition to creating merchandise for their well-loved original character, Jun, they also design sketches for apparel items.
Yorukura is the first anime series we’ve had a major hand in
── Is this the first time either of you have played a major role in an anime series?
popman3580: Yes. I’ve helped out here and there before, but Yorukura is the first series I’ve had a serious hand in helping create. Because of that, I was really anxious until the first episode aired, so you can imagine my relief when I saw it trending on X (formerly Twitter).
Hamunezuko: This is my first time ever working on an anime series. It was lovely to receive so many messages on social media saying, “Hey, I watched Yorukura!” right after the first episode aired.
── How did you become involved in the creation of this series?
popman3580: When I held a solo exhibition in Tokyo, Director Ryohei Takeshita visited me and offered me the job in person. He said that the way I drew female characters was perfect for the series he envisioned, but I never expected to become so deeply involved in it.
popman3580’s original artwork.
Hamunezuko: I received an offer through pixiv and was told it was a series about modern-day creators, which made me feel very strongly about becoming involved in its development. That said, I only realized just how important the role of an in-anime illustration drafter was further into the briefing process, so I felt a lot of pressure too. (laughs)
Hamunezuko’s original artwork.
One of the highlights of the show is the characters’ outfits
── I’d like to hear about each of your roles. Let’s start with you, popman3580-san. Were there any difficulties in doing character design for an anime series?
popman3580: The director told me not to worry about how the characters would appear when animated and to draw them in my usual style, so I didn’t have a hard time in that sense. However, I’m usually more of an outward presentation-first kind of guy, so I normally don’t imagine a character’s inner state of mind when drawing them. Ensuring all four characters had a distinct personality without making them feel out of place within the story’s setting was quite tricky for me.
popman3580’s original character design sketch.
── I love how stylish all the characters are. It’s not common for an anime to spoil us with such gorgeous, detailed outfits in every episode.
popman3580: The director did warn me that I’d be drawing a lot of outfits. Personally, I hope the viewers will also enjoy the characters’ outfits as one of the highlights of the show.
── Judging by your art style, I imagine it must have been hard designing Mahiru...
popman3580: And you’re absolutely right. (laughs) Mahiru’s character is meant to be a trend-following, cookie-cutter high school girl, so I thought long and hard about how to give her some personality. After struggling to find a starting point for her design, I decided to incorporate some basic motifs such as skirts, frills, and ribbons.
popman3580’s original character design sketch.
popman3580: Another thing I really struggled with was Mei’s design. She’s the quintessential “respectable upper-class young lady with long, black hair,” and I’m not well-equipped to draw that kind of character. But the more I thought about her personality, the more I realized she wasn’t just some stereotypical upper-class lady archetype—she’s also an idol superfan, which is a pretty big departure from her character trope. Taking that into account, I did my best to express her personality through accent pieces in her characteristically ladylike outfits.
── I see. How about Kano and Kiwi’s designs? Did those go relatively smoothly?
popman3580’s original character design sketch.
popman3580: Yes, pretty much. Kano’s character resembles my usual style the most, so her design was the easiest to do. Kiwi was also relatively easy since her outfits are the kind I enjoy drawing, but it was quite hard to capture the complexity of her inner mind, and I mulled over how to draw her expressions until the very end.
── Although they’re pretty casual in terms of style, both Kano and Kiwi’s outfits capture their personality really well.
popman3580’s original character design sketch.
popman3580: Kano tends to wear sporty clothes like anoraks or varsity jackets, while Kiwi likes to incorporate geeky elements such as character items or illustrated T-shirts into her outfits.
── What was your impression when you saw popman3580-san’s character designs, Hamunezuko-san?
Hamunezuko: popman3580-san’s female characters always seem so full of life, and I love how unique the four girls are and the way they dress so stylishly. While I love all of them, if I had to pick one character, it’d be Kiwi-chan. I feel like her hair, eyebrows, and expressions all go perfectly with popman3580-san’s art style.
It took half a year to complete the jellyfish wall mural
── The next few questions are for you, Hamunezuko-san. In Yorukura, Mahiru’s illustrations are closely interrelated with the show’s story. What sort of challenges did you face as the in-anime illustration drafter?
Hamunezuko: Since the story is about how Mahiru grows as an illustrator, the in-anime illustrations at the beginning had to be deliberately amateurish to demonstrate her growth as the show progresses. That was a balance I struggled with. Mahiru’s early illustrations are also pretty eccentric in terms of color and design, whereas my style is more simplistic and muted, so I had to remind myself that I was drawing as a person with a completely different art style than mine each time.
Hamunezuko’s in-anime illustration.
── The jellyfish wall mural that Mahiru created when she was in elementary school is one of the key elements in the story. How did you come up with that illustration?
Hamunezuko’s in-anime illustration, The Jellyfish Wall Mural.
Hamunezuko: The director suggested I draw inspiration from Pablo Picasso and Jimmy Onishi’s works, but as someone who relies more on planning than spontaneity when drawing, I panicked and was like, “I don’t have that kind of impulsivity in me!” (laughs) Not only did this mural have to be eccentric, which is part of its charm, but it also had to look like a kid drew it. It was basically a continuous cycle of coming up with a sketch, showing it to the director for feedback, scrapping it, and sketching a new one, which went on for about half a year. Given how many times I nearly gave up, the joy I felt when it was finally complete was indescribable.
── It’s a masterpiece, for sure! Could you also tell us about JELEE-chan, aka the mascot character of the anonymous artist group that Mahiru drew?
Hamunezuko’s in-anime illustration, JELEE-chan.
Hamunezuko: For JELEE-chan, the designing process went pretty smoothly since I was told I could draw her in my own style. Her design is loosely based on Kano, and I really enjoyed combining jellyfish-like attributes with ubiquitous fashion items such as harnesses and belts.
── What was your impression when you saw Hamunezuko-san’s in-anime illustrations, popman3580-san?
popman3580: For starters, I was really impressed that Hamunezuko-san was able to come up with such a vibrant wall mural despite it not being their usual style. I think in spite of all the challenges, it’s a wonderful piece—all the more so because of the trial and error they went through. Also, JELEE-chan is so stinking adorable! I feel like when you think of jellyfish, your first instinct might be to draw frills or dresses, but I like that Hamunezuko-san avoided those and made her feel like a real Shibuya girl. JELEE-chan’s concept is “Shibuya’s jellyfish,” and I’d say this design encapsulates that perfectly and even goes above and beyond. By the way, Hamunezuko-san, the outfits you draw are always incredibly lovely. Where do you usually get your inspiration from?
Hamunezuko: Well, for one, I really love clothes. I enjoy window shopping at all the trending clothing brand stores, and I think that’s where part of my inspiration comes from.
popman3580: I remember you make apparel too. That might be why you’re able to design such fashionable pieces—because you look at them and consider if it’s something you’d want to wear yourself, which I feel is an important perspective to have.
As illustrators, we found many of their troubles relatable
── Yorukura depicts various challenges regarding the act of creating something. Did you find yourselves relating to any of those challenges?
popman3580: I constantly find myself relating to Mahiru’s words and actions. Episode 5, where she compares herself to a popular illustrator, was especially relatable, and I kept going, “Wow, I totally felt that!”
Image from Jellyfish Can’t Swim in the Night, episode 5.
popman3580: It’s not just Mahiru, though—each of the four main characters has something I can relate to. In episode 3, where Kiwi enters junior high school, she becomes alienated from her friends for not sharing the same hobbies, and that felt really familiar to me. I’ve always loved anime and manga, so I know all too well how it feels not to share the same music tastes or watch the same shows as your classmates. Honestly, it was kind of shocking to see Kiwi perfectly reenact my youth on screen. Moreover, Kiwi’s success as a VTuber is largely in part to her employing a different persona than her real one. Before I became a full-time illustrator, I used to separate my work persona from my popman3580 persona, so I could relate to her in that sense too.
Hamunezuko: Personally, I relate to Mahiru the most. Her sadness and anger at having her art ridiculed resonated a lot with me, and I was gripped from the very beginning of the story.
── The four main characters are high school students. When did you two start your illustration journey? Had you already begun drawing by that age?
popman3580: I wouldn’t go so far as to call it an artistic journey, but I have been drawing from a very young age. When I was younger, there weren’t any places where I could share my work widely; watching Yorukura made me realize how much things have changed since then.
Hamunezuko: I started drawing digitally when I was in my first year of junior high school. Unfortunately, I was often depressed from reading mean comments or comparing my drawing skills to other people. As a result, I barely drew anything during high school.
── You went through the exact same thing as Mahiru, huh?
Hamunezuko: Exactly. Even though I quit drawing once, I guess deep down, I still enjoyed it because my desire to draw kept growing stronger every time I had the chance to do so. By the time I graduated from high school, I found myself picking up my brush again and resuming my illustration journey.
── I always imagined that leading creators such as yourselves had a pretty straightforward journey. Hearing your stories has been incredibly eye-opening and motivating!
popman3580: I was an office worker for the longest time, and it was only last year that I made the decision to pursue drawing full-time. As you can see, it wasn’t like I’d been drawing with the end goal of becoming an illustrator. That’s why I often got jealous or depressed when seeing people who were amazing at drawing and relating a lot to what Mahiru was going through.
When feeling down, it helps to remind yourself of your roots
── What do you do when you get depressed from comparing your art to other people’s, as Mahiru did in episode 5?
popman3580: I try not to give too much weight to the mere fact of how good or bad a drawing is. While it’s easy to get jealous of illustrators who can create masterpieces that blow you away at a glance, there’s only so much you can do if that’s the playing field you want to compete on. I think that instead of getting stuck on how well you can draw something, it’s better to emphasize what you love drawing and what many others might enjoy observing, such as a character’s gestures or female characters with a fetishistic allure. Simply aiming to improve your drawing skills seems like a recipe for burnout, so I think I’d rather focus on honing what makes my art unique and enjoying that process.
Hamunezuko: Because I’m pretty active on social media, I often have opportunities to compare myself to others. When that gets me down, I take the time to remind myself of what it is I truly want to draw, which is how I keep my emotions in check—after all, there’s no point in comparing myself to others when we don’t even share the same goals. I used to brood over things a lot more than I do now, but the older I got and the more I experienced failure, the better I became at brushing off negative judgment and returning to my roots.
── In Yorukura, there are a lot of scenes that involve social media. How do you two use social media, popman3580-san and Hamunezuko-san?
popman3580: For the most part, I use it as a space to share my artwork. I also talk about my hobbies every now and then since that can sometimes lead to job opportunities, and that’s pretty much it. Getting sucked down the social media rabbit hole will probably make me depressed, and I’ve seen people give up on drawing as a result of it. Personally, my mental well-being comes first, and I hope to use social media in a healthy way by setting clear boundaries.
Hamunezuko: I don’t really do much outside of work, so for me, social media is kind of like my whole world... Since that often takes a toll on my mental health, I feel like I need to do a social media detox every now and then consciously.
popman3580: I get it. Comments on your illustrations really stick with you, don’t they? Even if the person who wrote the comment didn’t mean anything by it, as the person on the receiving end, it can make you seriously consider deleting the drawing from your feed.
Hamunezuko: Yes, exactly!
── Hearing your stories has made me realize that no matter how successful, there will always be moments where you’ll feel discouraged as long as you’re a creator.
popman3580: I’ve seen people who are way better at drawing than me get genuinely upset by “how much more talented” someone else is, so it goes to show that things don’t get easier the more successful you become; if anything, you might have even more cause for despair. Hearing Hamunezuko-san’s worries today made me realize that we all kind of go through the same thing after all. (laughs)
Hamunezuko: This might sound weird, but I was a little relieved to hear you experience similar feelings too!
popman3580: I knew about you before we started working on Yorukura together, so when I heard you’d be in charge of the in-anime illustration drafts, I actually felt some pressure. (laughs)
Hamunezuko: You and me both. When I heard that you were in charge of the original character designs, I was so nervous, like, “Oh no, I have to make sure I don’t drag popman3580-san down.” (laughs)
── Thank you so much for your time! Lastly, I’d like you to share with our readers what you think makes Yorukura a show worth watching.
popman3580: For one, I’m sure that readers will find something in each character they can relate to. Also, since Yorukura is an original anime series, I think it’s great that we, as viewers, have no idea what lies ahead and can genuinely root for the main characters. Additionally, the way the show is being promoted through social media by making a pixiv account for Yoru Umitsuki (Mahiru’s pseudonym as an illustrator), an account for JELEE on X (formerly Twitter), and a tabloid-esque webpage about a scandal from Kano’s time as an idol feels very modern. Of course, you can always binge-watch the show once it’s finished, but I think stuff like this makes it more fun to follow the show in real-time.
Yoru Umitsuki’s pixiv account.
Hamunezuko: The members of JELEE deal with two major conflicts: one is the gap between their online and IRL personas, and the other is the difference in goals they want to achieve personally versus as a group. I feel like those are things every modern-day creator experiences, myself included, and the ways the main characters’ emotions evolve throughout the show will probably strike a chord with many people. I’d also like viewers to feel the passion, power, and sincerity with which JELEE engages in their artistic endeavors. Their appeal lies in their ability to move people through the power of their creativity, and it’s wonderful to see them achieve their dreams together!
Television broadcasting dates and streaming times
◆TV broadcasting dates◆
TOKYO MX, BS11: every Saturday from 1:00 am (past midnight)
Kansai TV: every Sunday from 1:59 am (past midnight)
AT-X: every Sunday from 10:30 pm
HTB Hokkaido Television Broadcasting: every Monday from 2:25 am (past midnight)
◆Streaming information◆
Simultaneous and advance streaming: Every Saturday from 1:00 am (past midnight)
d-anime Store, DMM TV, U-NEXT, Anime Hodai (all-you-can-watch anime)
*Members unsubscribed to U-NEXT are able to watch the first episode for free at any time, plus the latest episode for free, up to one week after airing.
Other platforms: the following Friday after the episode airs on TV from 12:00 midnight
Jellyfish Can’t Swim in the Night will begin streaming on the following platforms as soon as they become available:
NETFLIX, ABEMA, Amazon Prime Video, AnimeFesta, au Smart Pass Premium, Bandai Channel, FOD, HAPPY!Douga, Hulu, J:COM STREAM, Lemino, milplus, MovieFull Plus, niconico Channel, niconico Live, TELASA, YouTube Premium, Crank In! Video, Flat Douga (available at internet cafes)
*Please note that broadcasting and streaming dates and times are subject to change due to reasons such as scheduling issues.